PUSHBACK Talks

The Legend of the Vagabond Queen: Resisting Displacement in Lagos

• WG Film • Season 8 • Episode 7

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In Nigeria's largest city, a powerful story is unfolding - one that shines a light on the urgent struggle for housing rights and urban resilience. In this episode, we sit down with the creative team behind the new film "The Legend of the Vagabond Queen of Lagos," which dramatizes the real-life tragedy of the Otodo Gbame informal settlement.

Between November 2016 and April 2017, over 30,000 residents of this waterfront community were violently evicted, with nine drowning and two shot in the process. Our guests - lead actor Temi Ami-Williams, director/producer Bisola Akinmuyiwa, and director Temi Ogungbamila - have worked tirelessly with community members to craft a cinematic experience that demands our attention.

But this is more than a movie - it's a work of resistance, part of a broader campaign led by Slum Dwellers International. For decades, they've stood alongside organized communities to challenge forced evictions and build inclusive cities.


You can also support the launch of the film, or request a screening.

Learn more about the film, and the work of Slum Dwellers International.

Support the show

Kirsten McRae:

In the bustling heart of Lagos, Nigeria, a powerful story emerges, one that shines a light on the urgent struggle for housing justice and urban resilience. Today, we're honored to be joined by the creative voices behind a new film that is igniting conversations and inspiring action. The legend of the Vagabond queen of Lagos takes us into the vibrant world of Lagos waterfront settlements. But this is no ordinary story. It's a work of resistance rooted in the real life tragedy of the otolokubame community. Between November 2016 and April 2017 over 30,000 residents of this informal fishing settlement were forcibly evicted from their homes, becoming refugees in their own city. Our film's heroine as a young mother who stumbles upon a horde of corrupt blood money earmarked for a luxury development set to replace her community. Her journey takes her from isolated individualism to becoming a unifying force as she fights to save everything her people stand to lose. Joining us today are the lead actor Temi Ami-Williams, who brings his character to life, as well as director and producer Bisola Akinmuyiwa and fellow director, Temi Ogungbamila, they have poured their hearts into crafting a cinematic experience that demands our attention and calls us to action. This film is part of a larger campaign by slum dwellers International and its affiliates, who for over four decades have worked alongside organized urban poor communities to challenge forced evictions and build inclusive cities now, through the power of storytelling, there are Amplifying Voices that too often go unheard. Let's dive into the making of The Legend of the Vagabond queen of Lagos and explore how this project is intertwined with decades of grassroots activism, offering a glimpse into the profound wealth gap and exclusionary focus of development that threatens the heart and soul of Lagos. Look in the show notes for more information on how you can support this unique and powerful film, including booking screenings in your area. Now let's listen in as Fredrik and Leilani learn about the making of The Legend of the Vagabond queen of Lagos.

Fredrik Gertten:

I'm Fredrik Gertten and I'm the filmmaker,

Leilani Farha:

and I'm Leilani Farha, and I'm the advocate,

Fredrik Gertten:

and this is pushback talks. And again, Leilani, we are connecting the dots, or the whatever it's called, the video. I don't know what do you call this universe we're living in that you're in Ottawa, not in a basement, but you're at your home, and I'm in Malmo, Sweden, and we, we keep talking, and we keep producing episodes after episodes of pushback talks we do. For me, it means a lot. I mean, we don't make any money out of making the podcast, but we, for me, it keeps me sharp in some way. I need to follow what's happening around the world, and I think that's good. It gives me energy to do the podcasts same

Leilani Farha:

here, and I love talking to all these different guests. It keeps me feeling connected to different parts of the world, even if I'm just here for now in Ottawa.

Fredrik Gertten:

But in September, you went to the international Toronto International Film Festival, and you attended the world premiere of a film called The Legend of the Vagabond queen of Lagos, a film from Nigeria, produced and directed by people in The affected communities. Extremely cool. Tell me about your experience. I

Leilani Farha:

don't go to Toronto easily or often not my favorite place to go. But when I got a call from my colleague and friend Megan Chapman saying that this film had finally been made and it was premiering in Toronto at the Toronto International Film Festival. I knew I had to be there, and it was an amazing experience. It was standing room only, first of all, and the film is just an incredible piece. It's an incredible piece of art, but it's also an incredible reflection of fact. So it's fiction, but it's absolutely deeply rooted in what is transpiring as we speak in Nigeria today. And the acting is beautiful, but the activism is beautiful too,

Fredrik Gertten:

and we then have the magic to connect us and you the listeners, with three amazing women who are actually right now in Lagos, Nigeria. So welcome to push back talks. Temi Ami-Williams, you're the lead actress, and you entered the slums, and you are playing the role of a single mom in the midst of this very brutal reality. How was that experience for you?

Temi Ami-Williams:

Okay, hi, thank you so much for having me. It was it was very interesting. I'm going to choose my words correctly. It was interesting. It was. Eye opening. It was very enlightening for me, because, like I said, at the premiere, I was, I was introduced to a part of my world that I had never come in contact with prior to joining this this project with the amazing guys who made it, I studied, I studied 10 minutes away from one of these communities. Makoko is a very popular one, but I'd never been, I'd never been there. I didn't really know the realities of what they were going through, how they were living, or what they were facing with, with regards to forced evictions. And so, you know, being a part of the film sort of then educated me first of all, because to be able to play that kind of role, there was a lot of work and a lot of research that needed to go into it. You know, they were teaching me about, you know, some histories and the communities that had been evicted in the past, the one in particular that we were, that we were making the film about the todo bamir. I'd never heard about it prior to the film, and, you know, so I was, I was learning, learning about my my state, learning about the country, and learning about the realities that people you know are subjected to, learning about how families are being treated you know, less than human beings, and that, for me, was very it was really eye opening, but it also did more to to emphasize how much more I wanted to be part of a project that was socially impactful,

Fredrik Gertten:

because Nigeria is a very rich country. It produces oil, and we now, we hear about the Nigerian the fashion industry and the music industry and the film industry. I mean, it's a creative and strong and up and coming country, which is, of course, it's beautiful, but there is also a very sad part of the story, and I guess that's what you you got to experience? Yes, yes,

Temi Ami-Williams:

absolutely, I did. I experienced the sad part that nobody wants to talk about, or that if you hear about it or read about it in the news or in mainstream media, it's sugar coated, or it's told from a from a warped angle, so you don't, you can't really tell the truth in there. Yeah, this, this film was, like, It tore the veil off of, off of the whole thing, and, like, just brought it in its pure, naked form, like tame it. This is what it is. This is what's going on. You know, it was quite an experience.

Fredrik Gertten:

The film is following. You can see if forced evictions. And I've seen also a lot of documentary shots from forced evictions in Nigeria, and extremely brutal because, I mean, sometimes it's half an hour warning, and then people have to run away with all their belongings, yeah, and then the caterpillars are coming and just taking everything down people's home, maybe for generations. It's really hard to imagine that it exists at all. But we have two of the producers and the directors of the film here also with us, Bisola akimuiva and temi ogunbamila. Welcome to the show. Tell us about how you, how you got this film up and going from a community, I mean, because you live in this community, Bisola and Tammy

Bisola Akinmuyiwa:

and thank you so much for having us. And one thing that I used to say is our story must be told. And at first, I think my first experience in witnessing first a vision was at my early 20 that is, I was just 20 years old, and I was just going to one of our communities called to Luba me, and that was my first time of having the encounters of eviction. Then I was actually a committee paralegal. Was going there as a community paralegal, and just to render free legal services to assist in what we or the other on a legal spot, but immediately, isn't that I'm not actually doing enough? Isn't that the legal support I was given at that moment that is not actually enough? So I begin to ask myself, what can I do better? And we begin to start the ideas of how to publicize our stories, to gain attentions, to make sure that we stop the hands of evision, and we have our local media, know as media for change, under just in my permit initiative, which we'll be using to tell you our stories, and immediately we begin to put things together, because case was actually took to a court whereby the Court ruled in our favor. They actually place a judgment that there should be a resettlement. But till date, nothing like so we're like, what can we do better? And we begin to start in cooking up his stories, which leads to Legend of Vagabond Queens today, and a world of a vision is not what just happens to the Obama community, but it has happened to a talent of informal settlements, even right from the days that I was born. Up until now, it's still happening this. I could count about five community that is also down as it is, and now we're coming back from Toronto. I could remember we were still at the Paris when I was receiving a message, like, one community is also like going down under eviction. So it was actually a painful stuff to me, because coming back home and seeing one of our houses going down that eviction, which we are trying to, like, make an advocacy to actually stop this, so I couldn't hold on myself, the following, they have to, like, rush down to the community just to understand what was happening better. Then we met with the community headers, and they shared with us what has happened, but our part of the committee was already down, like they are brought up our part of the community already, and they gave the other house owners, like, four days to actually quit, to actually evacuate from the land, otherwise they will be coming in the next four days. So after the meetings, we actually have to, like, encourage them and try to, like, tell them more about how that community have put on their resiliency to make sure that they secure their community. Of course, they listened, and that has helped us to save the community for eviction on that same week, I think it was randomly on the 19th of september 2024 if I'm not mistakenly, so they actually came instead of a victim. So they came in form of addressing, and that's okay, we actually came here to address you guys so that you won't go on social media. On it started like saying the government is not giving you a listening here. So they gave us a three months to standardize out the roof in uniform, and also to make sure that all the roof is be painted accordingly like failures to do that that they are coming. So it actually brought up another phase of fears, which that is one of the puzzles that we are here to solve with the community. And we are actually not. So a vision has been like one of the antagonist spots whereby we that were living in formal settlements, we can actually have our highest close on it, because once the committee go down, the next question is, which community that will be the next? What next? So we could actually have our finger crossed or relax on it?

Fredrik Gertten:

Leilani, I mean, I think it's amazing that, I think we've seen that in many places around the world that community members are trying to tell their own stories through films and documentaries and clips on YouTube. But here's a community that directs and produces a film. I mean, it's slum dwellers who are producing a film that ends up in one of the top film festivals in the world. It's kind of it, kind of special, isn't it? I

Leilani Farha:

find the whole thing completely amazing. And I mean, I've been an advocate for I don't know what 25 years or something and everything about this, the way it evolved from the grassroots, the intention of the film, the story it tells, and where it's going to go from here is really it's should actually be included in studies of good advocacy and creativity in advocacy. I I really am so completely inspired by what you all have done, honestly. I think it will change the way other people do advocacy as well. I think it will help your own struggles. I really do. I have noticed in my own trajectory that the more public we are and the more storytelling we do, that's effective. And of course, we Fredrik and I worked on, well, Fredrik created, Push the film, and I was in it. I didn't have much to do with it, but I was in it. And the more we do this, it is a mechanism of accountability, and that's what human rights is about. It's about holding governments accountable. And I mean, various governments in Nigeria, for years have been making all these grandiose commitments, right? We're going to be better. We're going to build and people are going to have homes, and they just keep doing what they're doing, which is eradicating beautiful communities. And people don't know what informal settlements are really like. I mean, these are beautiful communities. They are intact communities. They are communities where, well, you all can talk about it more than me, but you know, communities where people work together and hang together and have each other's back, not to glorify, I'm not trying to glorify there. There are struggles in these communities, but a lot of that comes from governments failing to recognize them as communities and failing to help them develop as really vibrant communities. So that's my piece. I think what you've done is super amazing.

Fredrik Gertten:

And the films ends with a long list, very long list of of actual forced evictions in Nigeria. And there it's many, over many, many years. So it's kind of a whenever some rich people need some more land, they will do. Just kick out 1000s of people, and they will not give them anything back. They will just kick them out. It's extremely brutal. Tammy, I know you're a busier in the middle of a film shoot, so I know you are living on the other side of the Nigerian society. So how are you using your experience now your new insights? How do you communicate this to your friends and families?

Temi Ami-Williams:

I mean, when you say, I'm living on the other side, I'm just living on the mainland. There's the mainland, there's the island, and then there's these islands, these smaller, informal settlement islands. And I live on the mainland, which is not even like the eyebrow area. But since I made, since I became a part of the film and we made the film, I've become hyper aware of informal settlements. I'm like, my eyes are open every time I'm going past one. I'm like, Are they okay? Is everything okay there? You know, since we came back from Tiff just like Bisola said, they were already in the process of of affecting an entire community, they had already done half of one other community. And so it was just crazy. I'd be out on the road and just be be looking, are they okay? Is everything okay? You know, everyone's mind is thinking, how can we help? Right? And so the most that I can do right now outside of my NGO, because I run an NGO as well with a few friends for Child Health Care and empowerment through skill acquisition. And this one time, we paid a visit to one of these communities on an island, but we were just doing that to find out, you know, whose child isn't in school. How can we put people's children in school, you know? But now that this is, this is what's going on, it's, it's a remapping of of our priorities. Now we're thinking, how do we get like, a block of Bloods and just turn it into a shelter for people who don't have homes, you know, with thinking around areas like that right now, because there was something that Mohammed Zana said at one of the screenings. He mentioned that you can only have dreams and ambitions if you have a roof over your head, right? And if I care to put people's children in school, and if I care to do acquisition, skill acquisitions for them, none of that is possible if they don't have a roof over their heads. Right? So my my priorities are changing, concerning the NGO and also, I mean, I have my social media, I have my voice. That's the one way I can talk about it, keep the conversation going, and, you know, encourage my friends to talk about it. I have a strong, you know, supportive community that if I say, Hey guys, I need you to spread the word on this thing. They just like two seconds. They're all, they're all sharing it, right? So I'm leveraging on on my contacts right now. Yeah,

Fredrik Gertten:

that's really, really important. So, and you think you can bring more people with you, and this, of course, because you have a strong voice in Nigeria. So I have to ask temi ogunbamila also about, how do you pull off a big production like this? I mean, how do you fund it? How do you make everything happen? Because it's also, it's also a beautiful film. Sometimes you can feel or think this is like an amateur work, but this is like a really high end film. How did you make it happen?

Temi Ogungbamila:

Thank you so much for having me. I'll just start by how I came to be part of the team. I mean, I got to join the team in 2017 when I finished my secondary school in 2016 and I used to tell people that I joined basically because of my love for camera. I just want to take short, you know that selfie posts on Instagram and social media and all of that. But when I joined the training, I got to realize that media, you know, photography, videography, all this is more than that, that this is a tool for change. So knowing that these tools can be used as a tool of change, around that 2017, some things happen in Nigeria around that time where politicians, you say, politician, bury money in a graveyard, you know, in a coffin and different places that you can't even imagine. And Muhammad Zana and James Taylor, at the time, they were just discussing, and they came up with the idea of making a movie around that, and how this affect informal settlement, and that's how we start the movie. And I actually thought at that time, I really do not think it will be this long, because I thought it was just like script writing. We just do this for two or three days, and we're done. But as we can see now, I mean, it took a while, and I think we started. Writing the script with the funding from Sundance, Sundance Institute, where they funded the writing trip, we went for a trip to one of our communities on the island, so that we can be in that solitary place where there is no disturbance, and we can be able to brainstorm and come up with great ideas. And really it paid off. And this is what we've come to do. I mean, right now we have Legend of other one, Queen of Lagos. People have seen it in Toronto, but I've seen it in America. We seen it in Nigeria very soon. So it just shows the power of, you know, unity and, you know, people coming together for a good cause. Because this is for a good cause. We want to make sure first, eviction is something we don't experience again in Nigeria as somebody that has experienced it before. I know it is not. It's not a pretty good thing, you know, it's not, really not something you wish for your enemy self. So this is something we want to end. And, yeah, yeah,

Fredrik Gertten:

it's cool. I mean, I think overall, ailani, it's a good film, is when the filmmakers have a story to tell. You know that they have something at their heart. And this is, this is a very clear example of that, absolutely.

Leilani Farha:

And I mean, Nigeria is known in international circles, for those of us who work in the area of housing, it's known as the eviction capital of the world. Yeah, brutal evictions. And yeah, I mean, for sure. And when I first got involved in the human right to housing and working at an international organization on these issues, it was Nigeria that was, like, front and center of our work, because, and this dates back into the 90s, yeah, so, you know, just these really brutal evictions and with absolute impunity, as if the communities and The people in them, you know, really could just be erased. And so I love this act of challenging the eviction capital of the world, well, the evictors, you know. And just saying, we're coming at you in a very different way, and this is going to be very difficult for you to get over. Yeah, the spotlight will be on them as this film rolls out more and more, and I certainly hope it continues to roll out. Did you say that it hasn't rolled out in Nigeria yet?

Temi Ogungbamila:

No, it's going to be screened in Nigeria next week, Wednesday.

Fredrik Gertten:

Exciting. We wish you all the best, and I hope it will get a huge audience in Nigeria, as it deserves,

Leilani Farha:

absolutely, absolutely, and I mean, sorry, just to say to think that you in Nigeria actually have some of the best legal cases that have been won, saying that certain evictions are a violation of human rights and the Constitution, and still, the government proceeds with the evictions. I'm excited that you're going to actually start rolling this out in Nigeria, because that's where really where it will it's going to have a big effect. I think there's no doubt about that. And I think if it's happening next week, it's coinciding with the big world urban Forum, which is a big conference happening in Egypt, and hopefully we can make some connections there as well.

Fredrik Gertten:

Yeah, girls, what are your dreams for the film now? What is the next step? One

Bisola Akinmuyiwa:

is to actually achieve the dreams and the hymns, like the advocacy go to end, put an end to an evision that is number one, the number two, hopefully it's actually like give a rooms or a forum to reset to these people back, because we are still on the lingering feet of resettlement, and also to make sure that there's a culture on how the government actually go about their land accusations in some of the informal settlements is actually there. We actually have this law. The only thing is they are not actually making use of it. So we hope to actually have this to be more effective on advocacy side, and hopefully to actually have a room for a settlement for the evts in our communities, and with this, hopefully we'll be able to tell our story in a bigger forum like this, in nearest food shop,

Fredrik Gertten:

so you're going to show it also in the communities where you shot it. Yeah,

Bisola Akinmuyiwa:

one of our plan is, after we finish our screening with Africa Film International Festival next week, Wednesday, we're also taken back to the communities, because it helps to create unity. It give other communities a a resilience fit. It makes it to build more on their resiliency. Because when we actually went to the one of the committee, and we enlight them and we try to like, make them to understand what people have done in the past, and make. Them to secure their community back. They put into practice it works. At first they were like, Oh, I hope they won't shoot at us. I hope they won't do this. And we're like, even if they'll be shooting Tigers on you guys, you just have to put on the whole resilience and make sure that you protect you fight for what belongs to you, not with weapons, but with your resilient heart. And it works for them. That is why we're able to, like, see, have our feet and days are still counting December for the RE uniform roof at the aito communities, the other community, we have other community that is actually down ready, but we still have some that see, have their faith on the possible changes.

Fredrik Gertten:

I can see that this film is a part of ongoing, multi pronged campaign by slum dwellers International. Can you tell us more about this international campaign? Who is best to talk about? Because this is, like, really important, because it's not only Lagos or Nigeria that has people living under tough circumstances. What is happening around that. Okay,

Temi Ogungbamila:

so we have Nigerian slum and informal settlement Federation in Nigeria, which is a movement of urban profile, dignity and development. Jai is out supporting NGO and slum dollars International is an international arm of Nigerians from an informal settlement Federation. So slum dollars international encapsulates like slum communities from different countries in Africa, like we have slum communities in Ghana, we have from Benin, we are from South Africa. We have so many countries in Africa. So it brings us together. Most of us face the same struggle. For example, in Kenya, Kibera, I mean, before they made this institute up building that they did that we are trying to also adopt, they also face first eviction. I mean, current South Africa in, I think 2018 and I saw that they're also facing first eviction. So first eviction is not, as you said, peculiar to Nigeria alone is also affecting so many other countries, even beyond Africa, right? So the campaign is actually to take this movie to other countries, not just in Nigeria. We are taking it to several slum communities in Nigeria, but we're also taking it to other slum dwellers international countries that share the same goal with us, that have some communities so that they can also see what is happening from us and also learn from the movie. I mean, as Bisola said when we started, we actually want to show slum dwellers that they actually have power. I mean, you won't know until you see that, yes, I have this power so I can resist post eviction, so I can make sure I push back so they are not destroying my community, so they are not destroying my homes. So one thing is, like an empowerment sort of thing, to empower other slum communities beyond Nigeria. So I don't know if so want to add, yeah, sorry. I would love

Bisola Akinmuyiwa:

to add. I think one thing that keeps us together as slum dwellers International, one common goals that keep us is number one to put an end to first eviction. Because this is what happens in almost every informal settlement country all over the world, and as a slum dwellers International, one of our biggest goal is to empower ourselves to put an end, to foster visions, and also to make sure that we support one another. Yes, there is what the cost of slow supporting slum? Yes. So I think in the past, when we start like having this or currency of a of an evision, we do have people from Ghana that used to come to support us, to advise us. They also tell us how they have been trying to, like doing things in their own local ways in Ghana's so we also learn from one another in terms of, okay, this is the similar challenge that we also have here. So we learn from one another, and what is going to happen to this is actually going to go across the SDI athlete country, yeah, because we are actively in over 36 country. So hopefully, because it's actually like a piece for everyone to actually, like, learn and also try to, like, put up a planning set for we the informal settlement to actually work on so we actually support one another, and this advocacy will go across the SDI of this country, yeah.

Leilani Farha:

Mm, hmm. I think it's really cool. And I you know, under international law, forced eviction is a violation of human rights. No way around it, and it's well known. It's been well articulated in law. So, you know, I would love to see the film brought to some of the circles where states gather, like multilateral meetings, you know of different governments, like at the United Nations, for example, there is a film festival in Geneva, which Fredrik knows about, although I don't know if they show fiction films, but we should try to make sure that this film plays in. Places where governments are already meeting, so that we can use it as an accountability mechanism that way. So let's talk about that.

Fredrik Gertten:

Temi Ami, I know that you need to leave soon. How do you think this will change your your acting career, or your, I mean, your acting Do you think this will give you some new possibilities, yeah,

Temi Ami-Williams:

yeah, absolutely. I'm actually really excited for my career as an actor and also filmmaker as well. Black upon queen is my second feature film in history of my career, and the good thing that has happened for me is, you know, both of these films premiered in in a big way, in the top five at least Film Festival of Brazil was in the world. So I know that hopefully things crossed going from here. You know, more and more people want to hire me on their project one and then and then two. It makes me think that should people have socially impactful films? And they're thinking, which actress Can we trust to bring this to life? I'm hoping that my name comes close to their minds, because now from two along the same path, and I'm hoping that, you know, it will that I'm hoping that it will resonate with them when they're thinking, Who can we call, who can we hire? But as a filmmaker, career wise, as a filmmaker, vacant has has, like pushed me to think beyond, think beyond, beyond my realities, and start to consider other people and what they're going through. Tell their stories as well. I've tried the whole pathway of telling my story. I mean, everyone's going through something, yes, right? I I've just made a short film about about my actual, you know, lived experience being a cancer survivor in Nigeria, you know, and that, you know, tells on on health care system. It tells on a bunch of things, you know, in Nigeria, right? And so now I'm thinking, How can I tell other people's stories, like I've helped to tell black upon queen, you know, how can I, how can I take their stories in the most authentic way possible, and, you know, share it. So I'm thinking around those now and evolving beyond doing experimental stuff, because I mostly only used to make experimental films, cultural heritage pieces, movement related, classroom design pieces. But now I'm expanding to, you know, accommodate drama, tell stories based off of true life, yeah,

Fredrik Gertten:

Tammy, I have to, I have to ask you, because sometimes when you see a country from the outside where you've never been, yeah, it can just seem scary and horrible, you know, and especially when We are telling these kind of really dark stories. So you also have to tell me why we should love Nigeria. You know?

Temi Ami-Williams:

Why should you love Nigeria? Nigeria is, Nigeria is a really special country, right? And Nigerians who make Nigeria, they're a bunch of resilient people. You know, we keep using that word, but really that word is is coming alive right before our eyes, like we can be going through the toughest thing in the history of history, and we'll find a reason to laugh about it, right? We'll find a reason to keep hope alive in spite of our realities, right? Nigeria is a beautiful place. There are so many beautiful you know, parts of it, we have, we have abundance of natural resources, right? Nature. You want to come and connect with Mother Earth, come to Nigeria, right? There's, there's actually more to the country, beyond corruption and beyond, you know, the bad governance and whatever else you might find on the internet, there's a whole lot now. There's a there's a bunch of kind, loving people, there's a bunch of creative people, right? Nigeria is the largest exporter of of of cultural heritage. You know, Afrobeats, our films, you know, we're exporting so much goodness, and it's in there. It's in that country. There's so much more going on, I know, because really talking about, you know, and I really just want people to start to think about the country in like a wider on a wider scale.

Fredrik Gertten:

Thank you for that, because I, when I see the three of you, I can see that you're totally right. And and to see three women in those tough circumstances creating a film that premieres at the one of the a list festivals, it's, it's really an amazing job. So congrats. Would you share the same vision of Nigeria Bisola and Temi?

Bisola Akinmuyiwa:

well, I think I actually agree with Temi Ami, yeah. I think, to be honest, actually, a lot of beautiful things about Nigeria. I. Yeah, but it seems that the heavy body is actually lingering on the bad aspect of things more than the good ones. So, like, we actually have a bad record to actually tell us which affected people like me more than maybe other people. So I won't actually wanted to point out on some of other things than what is actually hacking to me, so that will actually be a good point of view to say, like pointing out things that may contradicting to your question. So I think, as you just on my piece for other people to just share their beautiful vibes on how Nigeria looks like to them. Thank you.

Temi Ogungbamila:

I think, personally, there is no place that there is no good and there is no bad, right? I mean, even the world is full of good and bad, right? So as much as there are bad people, you know, bad record of Nigeria, we actually have good things. Really. We have good things. We have good people. You know that times I would just be working and I would just come across somebody that will just be nice to me naturally, without wanting to receive anything back in return. So as much as there are bad people in Nigeria, there are good people, absolutely good people. And I have experienced that from people in Nigeria. And as Tim yami said, there are so many beautiful places in Nigeria, not not just in Lagos. We have not, I mean, we have so many places. Nigeria is just not about Lagos, about so many other states that are wonderful, yeah, that they have beautiful scenery. And you absolutely love Nigeria, if you come not thinking about the battlegrounds. Actually, I

Leilani Farha:

can say that, you know, when I was UN Special Rapporteur, I went on something like 10 different country visits, including Nigeria in october 2019, and it was only in Nigeria when I would go into a community, I would be greeted more than once with song and dance and art. It was amazing, even in the midst of real struggle and even sometimes violence that the community had recently experienced or they were experiencing and anxiety about being evicted, still greeted with this incredible music, song, dance, art, very unique. And the idea of this is going to sound, I don't know, hokey or something, but I think the women are so powerful in Nigeria, and the film really captures the strength of Nigerian women, and this gathering today on pushback talks the same. You know, the film really captures, like, the love of a mother for her child and the the resilience of women in the face of big, big struggles, right and big challenges to what is really at the heart of so many of us, which is home. So that was one of the aspects of the film I just adored. Was just like all these strong female characters, and really just that was my experience of of Nigeria, even though I was only there for two weeks. But

Fredrik Gertten:

still, then we talked about Lenay before, is that the film opens up with the main character, your character, Tamiami, she got arrested for being poor. Yeah, can you arrest people for being poor?

Temi Ami-Williams:

When did poverty beoce a crime?

Leilani Farha:

Yeah, and they have what, I can't remember, that it's a law. It's like you're not doing anything with your time. It's like it's so crazy, loitering, loitering. And in fact, in the film, Jawa was not loitering, she was working and she was selling food, and they still arrested her. And this happens, and I actually witnessed it in Nigeria a couple of times, and I even went to they, they put people in these terrible jails, this, like holding cell, and if, like, jaw had money, and so she was lucky, but if you think about it, right, she had money, she had to pay to get out of her potential imprisonment. And this is what I saw. And if you don't have money, you end up having to basically go to jail. I mean, it's double jeopardy, you know. So I was happy the film reflected that that's actually not unique to Nigeria. These loitering laws picking people up in Nigeria, it's actually even more strict, or something like, persons with disabilities can be picked up just for having a disability. I talked to people about that when I was there. I mean, it's these are all obviously completely contrary to human rights. It's obvious. It's discrimination against poor people. Yeah, before we close, is there anything that you wanted to say, that you didn't say, or anything that we could weave back in? I just want to make sure.

Bisola Akinmuyiwa:

Okay, I think we have said this before, but let me just hammer on in. But the purpose of we doing this is not just to entertain, though, once we entertain, why we tell our story is for us to call for support in a need to we just try to join your voice and make sure that we put an end to first generation. Though there's actually a legal way to go about this. We are not actually asking much. What we are asking is due processing to be taken so that will actually render people homeless and hopeless. So that is just the last call to an action that we want everyone to take out of this. Join your voices. Join the little support that you can if there's a room for accountability we have these people on our neck, you can just help us. You can bridge the bridge with the little way that you are the connection capacity to do,

Fredrik Gertten:

yeah, we will share the information about the film's website so people can write straight to you. So I'm really, really happy that we can make this connection between Sweden, Canada and Lagos, Nigeria. Thank you so much for being on pushback talks. It was really a pleasure. Temi, ami, biasola and temi, thank you so much. And I wish you all the best for your for your work. You are an inspiration. And we all need inspiration, because some people think that everything is hopeless, but you show us that it's not, and that's kind of that's what we need. Yes, thanks

Leilani Farha:

so much. So

Fredrik Gertten:

thank you, Leilani, it was nice to be up again with you, meeting inspirational people, this time from Lagos, and I'm really happy for our podcast. So let's keep going. Is there anything we need to say to our audience? I always should say that you need to you should rate the podcast. You should subscribe to it. It helps a lot. We have no audience in 162 countries, so it's truly global, but there is space for more people. So please share the podcast. Tell your friends about it, and always a lot of interesting stuff coming up, also in the future. And there are 100 plus episodes to go back and dig into. If you take long walks, it's a good thing,

Leilani Farha:

that's right. Or cooking while you're cooking, listen to a podcast. This was a special episode i i had a hard morning, and this episode gave me the inspiration I need to keep doing the Human Rights thing. If people want to support the podcast, one other way they could give us not just love, but money, through our patreon.com account. Go to patreon.com push back talks, and you'll find us there. Every little bit helps,

Fredrik Gertten:

every little bit is also some kind of love. You know, it's not only money, it's also you show us that you care about our work, and that's we need love. You know, money is good, but love is almost even better.

Leilani Farha:

Love is better, always better. Let's

Fredrik Gertten:

go for it. Thank you very much. See you soon. Leilani,

Leilani Farha:

thanks. Fredrik

Kirsten McRae:

Pushback talks is produced by WG film. To support the podcast, become a patron by going to patreon.com/pushbacktalks. Follow us on social media at make underscore the shift and push underscore the film. Or check out our websites, maketheshift.org, pushthefilm.com, or breakingsocialfilm.com