PUSHBACK Talks

Canada Fights for What's Right - a conversation with MP Leah Gazan

• WG Film • Season 8 • Episode 12

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Canadian Member of Parliament Leah Gazan (New Democratic Party, Manitoba) joins Fredrik and Leilani to explore how nations and individuals can stand firm against authoritarianism without succumbing to despair. Drawing from her family's experience with genocide across two continents, Gazan offers insights into transforming collective anxiety into meaningful action and leadership. Leah reminds us that in times of great challenge, we have a choice: to give in to pessimism or to use this moment to advance human rights and dignity. A timely discussion about finding courage in community and remembering that history's darkest hours have often preceded its most profound transformations.

Learn more about Leah's work here.

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Kirsten McRae:

In times of rising extremism and global uncertainty, it's natural to feel the weight of despair. History's darkest chapters seem to echo in today's headlines, and the shadows of authoritarianism loom large. But as we've learned from generations of resistance movements, from civil rights activists to indigenous defenders, darkness often precedes the most profound transformations in this episode of Pushback Talks Fredrik Gertten and Leilani Farha welcome. Leah goes on a Canadian Member of Parliament who carries within her family story the memory of genocide across two continents. Together, they explore how we can transform our collective anxiety into meaningful action and why we must resist the temptation to give in to cynicism and fear. We're witnessing a critical moment where nations must choose between appeasing extremism and standing firm in defense of human dignity. History has taught us that there can be no compromise with those who traffic in hatred and division. Instead, this is a time to forge new alliances, strengthen democratic institutions and prove that our commitment to human rights isn't just words on paper, and Leah says it's time for Canada to show leadership in doing just that. As our podcast reaches listeners in 164 countries, we're reminded that the struggle for human rights isn't a local battle, it's a global movement that demands our unwavering commitment, whether we're confronting economic inequality, standing up for indigenous rights or pushing back against corporate or colonial power, we can't choose when to care about human dignity. It must be defended everywhere. Always join us for a conversation about finding courage and community, turning despair into determination and remembering that the most powerful changes often emerge from our darkest hours. This is Pushback Talks where hope is an action we choose every day.

Fredrik Gertten:

I'm Fredrik Gertten and I'm the filmmaker,

Leilani Farha:

and I'm Leilani Farha and I'm the advocate. I

Fredrik Gertten:

and this is Pushback Talks back again, and nice to see you. Leilani, likewise, we are living in in a very interesting world going crazy. So we have a little bit to talk about. It's a very good moment, I think, to to to make a podcast called Pushback Talks, because it's like it is time to push back seriously. And I just checked that we have now have audience in 164 countries, which I think means that we are doing something that has a global interest Absolutely. So let's keep talking about important things. Okay? And tonight I have after this, I have to run off because we have a big showing of the Oscar nominated Israeli Palestine film called no other land, and it's sold out over the top, so it will be a very interesting evening. I've

Leilani Farha:

had the opportunity to see it. And to everyone out there, everyone should try to see this film. It's, it's just breathtaking. Let's put it that way, in so many different ways. And it's, it is a very interesting piece of documentary film as well.

Fredrik Gertten:

Yeah. And as I do documentaries, I think at this time in history, documentaries are a part of a global resistance movement. So it's really important to support independent film by, you know, watching them on TV, watching them on cinemas, talking with your friends about them. I think we with the guys like Trump and musk. They want us to talk about their stuff, and we need to talk about our stuff, and that's what we're going to do today, because we have an amazing guest who's a friend of yours, Leah Gassen. She's a member of the Canadian Parliament from Winnipeg, and when I checked, she won the election with high numbers, much better than any other candidate, and she represents the NDP, which is, I understand, like the Social Democrats of Canada, but that's maybe a way of seeing it. Leah, welcome to Pushback Talks so

Leah Gazan:

great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Leilani Farha:

Welcome Leah, everyone. Leah is a rock star, and you're going to get to know her now.

Leah Gazan:

So are you Leilani? Take that!

Fredrik Gertten:

Yeah, Leilani is also a rock star, but it's nice for me to have two rock stars from Canada in the same in the same show, and Leila, your your history is amazing because you are you have a heritage from two different traumas, one of being a granddaughter of a Holocaust survivor, another of one of being from the indigenous nation of Lakotas. So you are, you are in the midst of two of the kind of most important global issues right now, of course, the war. Gaza, but also the indigenous people who are in the kind of front line of almost any environmental struggle at this time in history. So welcome, and we have, of course, we have to start you know, you have these neighbors south of Canada going crazy. What do you think about it?

Leah Gazan:

Well, I mean, part of learning about history is that we don't repeat the same mistakes, right? You know, in terms of my family history coming from genocide in two different parts of the globe. You know, I grew up in a family with a father who had a very deep fear of fascism. And you know, just the kind of intergenerational impacts of seeing Trump elected. You know the rhetoric happening. I mean history, we're seeing history repeat itself. I think it's also important to understand that, you know, at times of great despair, and I think a lot of people are feeling this despair, a lot of people are feeling really scared right now that we don't feed in to the hate and rising extremism. And I actually pulled out a quote for today by a fellow named George Lakoff. He's an author. He wrote a book called Don't think of an elephant. And he was talking about, like right wing communication. Well, when you say, don't think of an elephant, what do you think of you think of an elephant. Trump's an elephant, you know, and he's he's always trying to take up the media cycle with his hate, with his clear disdain for international law, for his clear disdain for human rights, but this is what George Lakoff said, and I just thought it was so wise, and it's kind of allowing me to center myself, and I hope that for listeners out there. It also helps center them as we are going into a time of resistance, a time of movement. We are yes. He said, How to keep democracy alive in 2025 be brave, avoid helpless, hopeless talk. Authoritarians want you to feel powerless because it makes their work easier. Courage, faith and optimism are essential. Fascism feeds on cynicism and pessimism. Starve it. So that's how I feel. I feel that we you know, one of the things that I know as an elected official is the power of people and movement, and I think that we put too much capital in elected officials and people with title, and we don't put enough capital in people and the movement, because it's the movement that guides politics, it's the movement that shifts policies, and we've seen many examples historically. You know, where people rose up, people rose up and pushed back a Vietnam War, the civil rights movement, the American Indian Movement in in North North America, the Battle of Little Big Horn with my own people, with Sitting Bull and crazy horseback in the day, pushing back against General Custer, who was trying To eradicate my peoples, the Lakota peoples. You know, at times of great despair, it's time for us to use our voices, whether it's poetry, writing, art, being on the front lines, just stand up and take action.

Fredrik Gertten:

It's COVID. You mentioned this that we can't go cynical, because if we do, we, we, our cynicism. Are the fascist best friends. So and I made a film that is recently out called breaking social which is which actually contains exactly those sentences I was. I will send you a copy, because it's great. It is. It's the Dutch historian Rutger Bregman who is saying that in the film. So it's and I know you probably read his book about utopia for realists. And anyway, I think with Leilani and I talked before, and they say, Okay, how, what do we take of this time in history? I think in one way, it's interesting because we now have a. A very clear cut enemy. It's like an enemy who's not trying to look good, you know. It's like they're, you know, outspokenly evil, you know, and aggressive. And it's also, I mean, you can, I can see, I mean, my neighbor country here is Denmark, which is also under attack from from this, from Trump. And so you can see the reactions here in Europe. Is that okay? Now it's, this is too much. This is getting dangerous. You have the same reaction in Canada and also in Mexico. So I think in some way the US, together with Israel, are isolating themselves. So in some way, it's, this is an opportunity to find new friends, isn't it, absolutely

Leah Gazan:

and, you know, history repeats itself. You know, we know you can appease an extremist, because it's not about the issues that they're putting forward, like in Canada, he's talking about, you know, protecting the border, and, you know, coming up with these racist tropes of the evil migrant, when, when there's, like, less than 1% of people fleeing the US, and I'm sure there'll be less now, like, who wants to flee there, quite frankly, with, with a guy who has fascist tendencies, you know, I mean, it's, it's all, it's, it's all a fabrication. And, you know, and I see a lot of political, high profile political figures, even in Canada, trying to placate and pacify an extremist. You know, during the Holocaust, they called them Nazi sympathizers, you know, you can't, you can't, you know, play, play footsie with an extremist. So absolutely, I think it's a great opportunity, a great time to, you know, build friendships with countries around the world so that the US doesn't have this monopoly, including changing legislation in Canada to, you know, make it less cumbersome to even do interprovincial trade between our provinces. This is a time of reflection. And like I said, you know, during times of great harm, a lot of good can come out of that. And you know, let's take this as an opportunity. Let's not feed into pessimism. Let's be realistic. He is a threat. Let's not, I'm not. I'm certainly not trying to enforce toxic positivity, but let's look at those areas where we can push and advance forward so that we can come out on the other end and maybe lift up human rights, even better, protect human rights, even better human rights that are under threat globally right now. That's

Fredrik Gertten:

the puck over to you. Leilani, Pakistan, ice hockey of Canada. So Leilani, okay,

Leilani Farha:

having never played hockey, I'll take the puck. Yeah, there's so much to say. I feel like I'm operating it on two different wavelengths. One, is this issue around? Well, it's, it's something that, in fact, Fredrik, you taught me through our working together on push, and it's the it's the who controls the narrative, and do you get sucked into someone else's narrative, or do you stick with your own narrative? And I feel that very strongly right now. I myself was getting so caught up in all this Trump isms from the tariffs to his real estate grab attempt of Gaza. And then I had to sort of stop myself and and recognize, wait a second, I have a very important agenda of my own that is connected to the agenda of a worldwide movement to claim the right to housing for people around the world. And I have to just keep on my agenda and raising the voices and experiences of people who need rights protections desperately. And so I sort of, I have that happening, you know, on one level with myself, but then on the other, I do have despair that Leah talked about, and I do derive some hope, I don't know if it's the right word, but that we can start making connections where we haven't made connections before, that this is An opportunity. So I do look at despair that way, as okay. I feel isolated, and we have to overcome our own isolation. One of the things that Francesca Albanese said she's the UN Special Rapporteur focused on the occupied Palestinian territories. She said that the states. US and Trump are isolating themselves, that they want isolation, and that's exactly what we should give them. And that's, of course, what Leah was saying, and you as well. Fredrik, right? And I really like that. I think we need to make new friends and strengthen existing friendships with real friends.

Fredrik Gertten:

And also, kind of also go back to what values can we do we have in common with people? And I know Leilani, we were joking about this this morning, that that you always been complaining over your own country, Canada, is that is so lame and so weak in taking positions around what's happening in gas and so on. But suddenly you say, Wow, Canada, you know, you go there suddenly. So this is like, this also kind of puts you together with people. Again. It's interesting, isn't it? Well, I'm kind

Leah Gazan:

of in the same boat, you know, however, you know, I think Canada, it's really important right now that we don't feed into extremism, that we take positions that uphold human rights, and that includes all human rights that are under attack. I mean, we currently have a leader of the Conservative Party, Pierre poilievre, who is like a mini Trump, you know, he's a Trump wannabe. He's been endorsed by Elon Musk, you know. And we, you know, we can look at somebody else's backyard, but we have to also protect our own backyard. We have to protect our own backyard from extremism. We have to protect our own backyard to ensure that we elect people who will uphold international law. I mean, Pierre poilievre is on record indicating that he supports Israel without qualification, he does not support the ICC ruling that has come out. He's another Trump. Trump invited somebody who has an arrest warrant on American soil to negotiate a land deal to further occupy Gaza. So we have to look carefully at our own backyard. Yes, I'm glad we're not in the States, and I want to make sure we don't become the states.

Fredrik Gertten:

And I think anyone who would have like an endorsement from Elon Musk is like having a, you know, proof of being really bad. So whoever got that that endorsement is someone you should look away from. And this is happening now in elections in Germany, in Canada, in many other countries. So he's supporting all the really bad people. And of course, that's but at the same time, it also makes the map clearer in some way. You know, of course, he's a very dangerous enemy, but it also makes the rest of us, I can see also here in my own country, that, you know, former Conservative Prime Ministers and so on are now speaking out, saying out loudly, that US is going in a fascist direction. This coming from a conservative politicians. So it is, it is kind of, I think it's interesting, and so it gives us this opportunity to work with new people and new connections.

Leilani Farha:

And as you said, Fredrik, that it reinforces, or at least it compelled me that, excuse me, the tariff threat on Canada really compelled me to think about what is it about this nation that I do value after spending 16 months railing against the government that was not espousing values that I believe in, things like human rights and international legal order and law, I was like, okay, but wait a second. I'm having a reaction to Trump saying that Canada should be a 51st state. What is my reaction? And there are things that exist in this country that I do want to defend that, and they are values. We have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms that I believe in, even if it's not always implemented in ways you know that I would agree with we are supposedly strong members of the ICC, the International Criminal Court. And that decision that Leah referred to, what it said that is so important that that Canada has not shied away from, is that the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank is, one, an occupation, and two, is illegal. And three, Israel must withdraw immediately. That's what that says. So I started to think, oh my gosh, there are things that I like about this country. We also do have universal health care, even though it's broken. And there are other things, right? So it's an it is an interesting moment to as you say. Make strengthen friendships, make new friends, but also reassert, as Leah was saying, those values that are like, look at how lost we are without those values, right? That's where we're we are right now. We are lost without a framework, a set of basic values. And

Fredrik Gertten:

that's why we also need you, Leilani, with your very straightforward human rights approach that you, I mean, you taught me a lot also about that, and you teach the world about because the whole world is not talking about housing is a human right thanks to your work. Is

Leilani Farha:

anyone listening?

Fredrik Gertten:

I think Leah is listening. And I can see in the in the all the proposals you put forward in the House of Commons in Canada that you you have a lot in common with with Leilani.

Leah Gazan:

Yes, well, I'm a big fan of Leilani because of the very clear positions Leilani always takes on human rights. And I think that's what's happening right now. You can't pick and choose when to uphold human rights. That's a slippery slope. You know, my father, coming out of the war, there are certain things that stick with me in terms of, like guiding principles. He said, when you start talking about who to leave off the boat. You have to stop the conversation right there. You know, in in Gaza, they've, you know, totally flattened Gaza and and, and, you know, forcibly removed people out of an area around the world. And I know Leilani, you do a lot of work around it, in encampments, people that don't have a house. Now, just you know, bulldozing over encampments, you cannot pick and choose when to uphold human rights and when to not like look at reproductive rights, reproductive justice for individuals requiring safe trauma, informed abortion care. Currently, I'm at risk in Canada in terms of access. You know, it's one thing to talk about something being a human right. It's another thing to provide access to that right. In the States, they're abolishing the ability of to have gender affirming care and access to safe trauma informed abortion care. It's a slippery slope. The attack on trans folks you know, a very small percentage of the population, picking and choosing when to uphold human rights from people, from leaders, the most extreme leaders you know, fascist are talking in the name of freedom. They're anything but freedom.

Fredrik Gertten:

And they seem to like to do it just for fun, you know, because they can hurt somebody. They do it. And it's, it's kind of, it's unheard of in history, in some way. That's that what they are doing now is it's so aggressive, and they like it to be aggressive, and they want to scare people around. And of course, for a US citizen, this is, like really complicated, because they're breaking down government. They're not reforming government. They're destroying government, which is like a hell of a difference. So because every government can needs reforms, of course, but, but this is, like, extremely destructive.

Leilani Farha:

Yes, I tend toward the naive sometimes, as was revealed in push and no one ever lets me forget it. But, you know, like I just want to talk to some of these people. But in any event, the other day, I was making my lunch and I was thinking, imagine being someone like Trump or Musk or even Mr. Poilievre, where you're what's really motivating you is being mean, cruel, creating hate, divisions, etc. And then I thought, imagine, imagine being the leader of the free world, as they call the United States, and taking all of that energy and all of those resources and putting them toward social and economic good and human rights and well being. I was thinking, oh my god, like I I just, I can't imagine being someone who's who has so much power, so much wealth, so much might and and using it for such negative things. And so anyway, it was just a moment of wishing. I suppose

Fredrik Gertten:

I think that's kind of because the natural thing is to help each other, and its natural thing is to try to do better, to do good. And of course, then you can have different strategies. Somebody loves capitalism more than others, and you know, but this is like extreme. It's extreme, and it's so filled with hatred. Leah, we should talk about your work. Work, also a little bit before, I know you've been working for universal basic income, you've been proposing that, which is also what I've been looking into with Rutger Bregman. But tell me, why are you a fan of universal basic income? Well,

Leah Gazan:

you know, I actually I'm elected where I'm elected and serve, I represent one of the poorest urban ridings in Canada. And one of the things that I that I often say, is that poverty is one of the most violent human rights violations. It's so violent and many of the folks that are living in poverty are indigenous folks. In Canada. We actually have the highest rate of poverty in Canada, many folks who are poor and homeless on our very own lands. You know, we talk about reconciliation in Canada. Well, we need economic reconciliation. I'm not talking about economic reconciliation like you either participate in resource extraction or and we'll send in the cops. I'm talking about economic reconciliation providing everybody what they need to live with dignity and security. You know a lot of folks that that struggle with income, for example, are dealing with complex mental health and trauma issues. Many folks, 70% of people in Canada with intellectual disabilities, live in poverty. You know this whole notion that the value of a person is based on work and not just being a human being. We need to Pushback against that rhetoric. Not everybody can work five days a week. You know, do we want seniors that are like, 80 years old get back to work grandma like, I don't want to live in a world like that. And we know for every dollar you provide a person that goes back into the local economy. So it's good for people, and it's good for to build healthy economies.

Fredrik Gertten:

And then also, I mean, I've been coming to Canada regularly to show my films and so on. So I've seen this amazing, horrible story of the boarding schools of where indigenous people have been almost murdered or been murdered. So, I mean, this is also something, it's a part of the trauma that is like still very strong, also in Canada. Well, absolutely,

Leah Gazan:

for over 100 years, over 100,000 indigenous children were kidnapped from their homes and placed in residential schools where they experience sexual, emotional, violent, emotional, psychological, spiritual and physical abuse. Many of the students never made it home and died at the schools. And you know, like, what school has a graveyard around it? You know, residential schools have graveyards around it. So this has had a lasting impact on our communities and our families and

Fredrik Gertten:

people lost their languages and their culture, yeah, their memories,

Leah Gazan:

language, culture, dignity. They lost their their mental health, the ability to be families, you know, because they they had directly attacked our kids and our families. And we often talk about students that went to the schools, but we rarely talk about the parents. Can you imagine how silent our communities were when all the kids were kidnapped and taken off to the

Fredrik Gertten:

schools? So what you have on the streets in Winnipeg is also part of this historical crime in some way,

Leah Gazan:

for sure. And I mean, there's now more kids in care than at the Haida residential school, many kids that end up in the child welfare system that get dropped off at shelters when they turn 18 years old directly into being houseless, directly at 18 years old in Winnipeg, the 60s scoop, there's been an ongoing an attack On the human rights of indigenous peoples in Canada, and it's and it's all rooted in the violent dispossession of our lands, territories and resources. And you know, even our police forces, the RCMP, were used to enforce and kidnap kids from resident or from their communities and ship them off to residential schools. So it's systemic and it's ongoing.

Fredrik Gertten:

So great that they have a representative, as you in in the Canadian Parliament, I would say I can see that you also being active in other important global struggles. In my last film break. Social also portray Chris smalls, the leader of Amazon labor union in the US. And I see you've been standing up for the Amazon labor unions in is it in Montreal or in Quebec?

Leah Gazan:

Quebec? Yeah, so in Quebec. So, like, I think what's happening in Quebec is a case in point with how this big tech role oligarchy really it's a bro look. Our key is, is fighting a one sided class war against workers, anti union, you know, pushing back against collective bargaining, something that in Canada, you know, that I hold in high esteem. And Leilani brought it up. You know, the Supreme Court of Canada has upheld the right to collect a bargain and the right to unionize. And in fact, when Walmart tried to do the same thing in Canada, closing down their locations, they lost in court. So, you know, currently, like, I'm hoping that we can Pushback against Amazon. You know, certainly we're pushing. Our Party is pushing to boycott Amazon right now stand in solidarity with workers, because we see what I called, you know, many years ago, actually, in 2019 2000 2018 actually, when I decided to run I called it a growing corporate dictatorship. And people like all Leilani, that's kind of extreme right, not any longer, not any longer, we see a growing corporate dictatorship. We see, you know, media moguls, the broligarchy taking over communication. We we're seeing a growing corporate dictatorship, and we need to Pushback against these leaders. Let's not forget that Jeff Bezos was one of the bros giving trump the high five when he got elected, because He's their leader. He's not the people's leader. The tariffs he's putting in, he's not the people's leader. It's going to get more expensive for Americans. Why is he punishing his own people? So I'll leave it at that anyway. I could go on and on,

Leilani Farha:

well, and just to say what's happening with Amazon in Quebec is super serious. I mean, there's something like seven facilities that they are going to close down, it's going to impact more than 4000 employees. 4500 employees. They make terrible wages, like $8 lower than other similarly situated factory workers. The conditions are terrible, like amazing and Amazon claims it's not unionization. Oh, really. I mean, it's really outrageous, what's happening, and they are going to court, as I understand it, the workers are going to court to Pushback against this, which is what needs to happen, of course. But you know it, it just amazes me, these actors, as you say, the broligarchy, and their willingness to destabilize populations, to line their own pockets. That's what Elon Musk is doing. That's what Bezos is doing. That's what in my world, Blackstone and the head of Blackstone is doing. I mean destabilizing people.

Fredrik Gertten:

I think it's interesting coming from Canada or from Sweden is I mean, collective bargaining is a part of our culture. It's like, it's not even controversial. But here in our country, we have a one year long strike on Tesla, on Tesla workshops, and so Elon Musk refuses to sign a collective agreement. And so there is a one year long strike against Tesla. And it's like, in some ways stupid, because now I can see the sales of Tesla is going down all over the world, here in Europe, a lot. Yes, yeah. So it's, I mean, it's for the people, the innovative people working at Tesla must be frustrating to have such a poor leader, you know. So it's, it's, it's a strange situation, but it's, again, the positive is that we now have clear cut enemies. You know, they are not good in any aspect but,

Leah Gazan:

but I think that shows the power of people like, you know, the boycotting of Tesla, the boycotting of Amazon, and, quite frankly, in Canada, you know, the current government has done a lot of union busting, like on our ports, for example, with Canada Post right now, you know, putting off negotiations till after the election kind of thing. And, you know, doing kind of back door, forcing them back to work, finding ways to force workers back to work, you know, weakening the power of of the workers and unions. So like, we have to stand up and protect. These human rights without question, without qualification. We can't pick and choose when we uphold these rights, but I think it also shows the power of people. Let's support Canada Post in Canada instead of Amazon. Let's boycott Tesla. Let's boycott. I grew up in a family I spent most of my life boycotting, and I'm doing it now. You

Fredrik Gertten:

don't have a Tesla. I have a beautiful bike, I tell you, yeah, it's very old, though, but

Leilani Farha:

it's so interesting, Leo, what you just said about like you grew up boycotting, and I cert, I certainly grew up in a family of boycotting. I mean, we're making all sorts of linkages on this particular podcast, but you know, the boycott, divest, Sanction movement, with respect to Palestine has has been so maligned and and, I mean, there's been legislation and motions against it, including in Canada. And now suddenly, I think a lot of the world is waking up and saying, These guys created this economic world where the brand is powerful, etc. And so it's the one of the few tools we have, is to attack the world they created by using our power to say, No, I'm not going to use Amazon and no, I'm not going to buy from this country or that country, etc. It's very I'm loving the moment, because I have long been a BDS supporter, for sure, and I'm just seeing now everywhere boycott. I mean, the first thing Canadian the different provincial and territorial governments did in Canada around the tariffs, they were like, boom, we're taking American alcohol, especially for red states, off the shelf.

Leah Gazan:

So a lot of the companies that are that were, I'm now boycotting in the states are the same, same companies as Israel with the BDS movement, yes,

Leilani Farha:

exactly, exactly, yeah, and the circle is complete, exactly.

Fredrik Gertten:

So we we have a Pushback talk, a podcast with two boycotting rock stars. I'm happy. Fredrik. Wait.

Leilani Farha:

I have one more question for Leah, one more question. And she may or we may, she may or may not want to answer, but I'm going to ask, in this country, we will have an election in the spring. Most likely, have you decided if you're running again?

Leah Gazan:

Oh, I am running. I've been nominated, and I'm actually door knocking this afternoon.

Leilani Farha:

Fantastic. Yeah, it's good to hear, and your constituents will be super glad. I

Leah Gazan:

hope so. We'll find out on E day,

Fredrik Gertten:

exactly. It's a lot of work to be in this game, but it's but thank you for your for your work and for your energy and for your for being with us. That's the luxury I have together with Leilani, that I meet a lot of inspiring people, even if it's only through through this screen, but it's but it's very nice. And I will tell Leilani to send you my film, so I think you will like it. Yes, absolutely. And have a great day out there on the streets of Winnipeg. Hope it's not too cold.

Leilani Farha:

Yeah, it's a cold day for door knocking. No, it's warm. It's very

Leah Gazan:

cold, very cold. Yeah, I'm gonna go in apartments. I have to be honest, right? I could fib, but I'm going to be an apartment today. It's apartments, yes, yes. How cold is it? It's like minus 23 Oh,

Fredrik Gertten:

I will not it's it's too much for me.

Leah Gazan:

That's too much for me too, and I live here.

Leilani Farha:

It's balmy. It's balmy. In Ottawa, minus 10, just minus 10. Yes,

Fredrik Gertten:

yeah. In Malmo, Sweden, it's like plus three or four or something. So it's yeah, no, it's just plus one. So it's kind of Oh

Leilani Farha:

yes. Don't flaunt, don't flaunt your warmer weather. Yeah,

Fredrik Gertten:

it's too cold. Anyway, it's too cold. So called

Leilani Farha:

Nordic country.

Fredrik Gertten:

I like my kind of Nordic because it's closer to the south. Yeah, I have to run off for this important screening of no other land, yes. And so thank you, Leila, for being on our podcast. Thank you, Leilani. Please tell our audience how we fund this podcast.

Leilani Farha:

Well, we don't fund the podcast, but we love new friends and new supporters. So if you go to patreon.com and look at Pushback Talks, you can support us every little Euro, dollar, etc. Leilani. Lyra. No anyone using Lyra anymore. It all helps.

Fredrik Gertten:

And also, please tell your friends about the podcast. Also make comments, subscribe to the podcast, do everything you know that helps the algorithms and be a good friend, because at this time in history, we need our friends because we have really mighty enemies, so be a good friend. See you soon. Leilani, and thank you. Leah, thanks. Fredrik,

Leilani Farha:

thanks. Leah,

Leah Gazan:

thanks so much for having great seeing you both. Thanks.

Fredrik Gertten:

Bye, bye, bye.

Kirsten McRae:

Pushback Talks is produced by WG film. To support the podcast, become a patron by going to patreon.com/pushback, talks. Follow us on social media at make underscore the shift and push underscore the film, or check out our websites. Maketheshift.org, pushthefilm.com, or breakingsocialfilm.com