Summer Word Food: Democracy & Flowers

The Pushback Talks Summer Series is back!

This summer, Fredrik & Leilani are serving up what we call Word Food – bite-sized conversations that pack a punch. Here's how it works: each week, we randomly select two words and dive into a 10-15 minute exploration of how these seemingly simple words intersect with our complex socio-political moment.

Think of it as intellectual snacking with substance – light enough for your summer playlist, deep enough to make you think twice about the world around us. 

New episodes out every Wednesday, so make this your midweek ritual for curious minds.

This week: Democracy & Flowers

Transcript

Fredrik Gertten 0:03

I'm Fredrik Gertten and I'm the filmmaker.

Leilani Farha 0:06

And I'm Leilani Farha, and I'm the advocate.

Fredrik Gertten 0:08

And this is Pushback Talks Summer Special, where we play with words, me and Leilani, and we call it Word Food. Leilani, are you ready? I feel like I'm on a game show. You are. I'm ready. Let's go.

Leilani Farha 0:28

Frederick, your word is democracy.

Fredrik Gertten 0:33

Ah, democracia. It's interesting, democracy. Is this an empty word? Or is it something that is a really valid thing that we should talk about? Because it goes like in two directions. Because I guess that Putin also would call Russia a democratic. And I mean in the old East Bloc countries, they call it the Democratic Republic of Germany and so on. So it's sometimes it's kind of a cover-up of something. And now when you see the I mean the development in the US where democracy is like going out, because the whole idea of that system of you know the three powers that could check each other is kind of going down because of that this administration doesn't really care about it. And then, of course, I mean, which I also talked about in my uh Breaking Social is that democracy is at sale, you know, you buy it with campaign money and with uh strategic communication, you you buy the public agenda, and then in some ways you also end up with democracy. So democracy, I think, I mean, you know, when we were out talking about push uh to audiences around the world, people always ask, well, so what is the solution? And I said and I meant it, democracy. You know, I mean, that's the only way we can go, and then we need democratic representatives who can take on the powerful, you know, to can create rules that are also the most powerful need to follow. So it's it's now we have a democracy where you know normal people need to follow the rules, but then if you're rich enough, you don't have to pay taxes, you don't have to follow the rules because you can you can operate over all these different um jurisdictions. I mean, and we see that in the housing style and uh, you know, in all this the global financial scheme. And it is actually interesting. I think the pandemic showed in some way with the lockdowns that uh the super rich got very frustrated and then they moved out to the yachts and they found their places. And and so the super rich are already trying to find a way to kind of uh live outside of the world that the rest of us are living in.

Leilani Farha 3:25

When I am contemplating democracy these days, I I'm I'm just always struck at how fragile it is. It's amazing. I mean, it's so quickly and easily done away with, it seems to me, by governments. And it takes so much effort and energy to keep it alive for those of us who care about it, which is most people. Um, like if you look at this the status of free expression right now, I mean it's being clobbered in all across Western Europe, all across Eastern Europe, all across the United States, all across Canada, all across Asia, right? I don't know so much about what's happening in Africa around free expression, but it's amazing to me that just so quickly it can be illegal or almost illegal to protest a genocide. How is that possible? How is it possible? And just like that. And then for us to get it back, the right to protest, we have to go to court and spend money litigating, or we have to take to the streets more, or we have to be willing to be imprisoned, or we it's really amazing to me. Just it's so democracy is so very, very fragile.

Fredrik Gertten 4:49

And and and this experience that you are now reflecting on is very much a northern perspective in some ways, where we for a period had the space to speak out and to write and and and criticize, and you know, being complicated, as people would say. But of course, in in uh Latin America, with all the the Western supported dictatorships, people died and been was tortured when they were speaking out. And the same goes for many African countries, and of course, also uh in Southeastern Asia and so on. So when we are now facing this, we are like probably getting into the same space as many of our friends in other countries have been into for a long time. So maybe it's also good, it's not good, it's not good at all, but it's good to understand that we are now fighting the same struggle as many other people are doing.

Leilani Farha 5:54

Yeah. I I wonder what you think about the fact that it seems governments are not representing people anymore. You know, that so many millions of people can be protesting about a thing, whether it's Gaza or something else, and yet they're taking all these decisions that just go counter to I think the big problem is actually, you know, the the politicians need to win elections.

Fredrik Gertten 6:22

And that's it become more important than governing well, you know. So everything is about the next election. And then you have this the money-flooded election campaigns with the talking points and the funders, you know, the funders of the elections, they want you to go in one way. And if you go it go against the funders of the campaigns, you will not get any money. So in the end, the the elections are about talking points. And I mean, the talking point could be anti-corruption, you know, but it doesn't really deliver anti-corruption. I mean, it can be whatever. Yeah. But I think that's a big problem. Um, and of course, I don't know exactly how to solve it. I I mean the the best way was to kind of to to control all the funding of elections or of political parties, to to level it down to something that is reasonable. Because now elections is a huge industry.

Leilani Farha 7:26

Yeah.

Fredrik Gertten 7:27

I mean, it's one of the biggest industries in the world, it's elections. And and when you buy the service of winning an election, you buy into a scheme that is partly criminal. You know, it's like it's uh because everything is okay as long as you win the election. Yeah you can lie as much as you want, you can cheat, you can create stories that are not true, and you can make people talk about things that are not real. You know, you shift the focus away. And I think if we want to protect our democracies, or you want to develop our democracy into real democracies, we need to be aware of those schemes, and we need to be aware of how they do it. And I I mean my film Breaking Social was partly made to kind of okay, let's talk about this. Let's talk about how they they take over our democracy.

Leilani Farha 8:31

So, everyone, if you care about democracy, go and watch Breaking Social.

Fredrik Gertten 8:36

Thank you, Leilani. No, it's is it me? It's me. It's you shooting at you. What will I shoot against you, my dear Leilani? Are you ready?

Leilani Farha 8:50

Don't shoot it, just send it.

Fredrik Gertten 8:52

And I will send you flowers.

Leilani Farha 8:57

I love flowers. I love receiving flowers, I love growing flowers, I love looking at flowers, I love smelling flowers, I love being amongst flowers or amidst flowers.

Fredrik Gertten 9:15

You're a flower yourself.

Leilani Farha 9:17

I am. In fact, my name, Leilani, means something like heavenly, beautiful flower, something like that. There you go. A lay, you know, when you go to Hawaii, they put a lay around your neck. That's flowers.

Fredrik Gertten 9:33

There you go. I've never been to Hawaii. I've been invited twice, and I could never go.

Leilani Farha 9:39

It's very far away from you.

Fredrik Gertten 9:41

Yeah, we we were invited together last time for the to show push at the mayor's conference, and none of us could go. It was i I'm still a bit sad about that. But it's true. Yeah, far away.

Leilani Farha 9:56

Yeah, flowers are really important to me.

Fredrik Gertten 9:59

In San Francisco in 1967, they were singing, Where have all the flowers gone? You see, where so where has all the flowers gone?

Leilani Farha 10:13

Yeah, where have all the and where have all the young girls gone? Isn't that part of the song too? Let's leave that, Frederick. Uh, and let's just talk about a little bit more about flowers. So I, um, as a gift to my mother, uh, every Christmas, I gift her a flower subscription. So I sent, I have sent to her every month a very beautiful bouquet of flowers. She also loves receiving flowers. And when she comes to my house on the weekends, she often brings me flowers. So it's for me, it's also this mother-daughter connection that's really lovely. Of she also has a green thumb. I have a bit of an indoor green thumb. We both love to grow plants, uh, some of which flower. Um, although I am known to kill an orchid every every so often.

Fredrik Gertten 11:04

I actually, well, that this weekend I bought flowers to our backyard together with my neighbors, and we planted, and it's it looks really, it's really nice. But normally I, you know, I live by a green market. Uh so there is a flower stand or several flower stands, and I quite often buy flowers just to myself, you know. Especially in winter.

Leilani Farha 11:30

It's I do that too.

Fredrik Gertten 11:32

Because I think it's about the need of beauty, you know. I think we can talk about uh housing and homes and city planning and all that, but it's also about beauty. I think people become, you know, when when you come to a beautiful place, you slow down, you know, you you you might yeah, you just sit down on the bench, you you watch people walking by. There is something with beauty that is um so important. And and in a city with flowers, it becomes a city where people can can be gentler and you will see more smiles. And when there's more smiles, there are also more human connection. So I think flowers is the shit.

Leilani Farha 12:29

The bomb. I I can't disagree with that, that's for sure. And when you think about parks in cities and how important they are and how people do commune, and I'm I mean, I'm in London right now recording, and it is a city of such gorgeous parks and well cared for parks. And when people are living on top of each other in flats and really kind of crappy accommodation, the ability to go out and see beauty, as you say, and pause and breathe and then commune with other people, it's pretty nice, very special.

Fredrik Gertten 13:07

It's also democratic in some way, you know, that everybody has. I mean, even if you don't, you're not rich, you live in a small apartment. If there are public spaces where you can breathe and be a human being, the city is giving something back to you. So more parks, more flowers. Long live. Flower power, flower power, and all you know the question where have all the flowers gone, they've gone into this podcast. How sweet, how sweet. Pushback talks goes flowers.

Leilani Farha 13:50

Okay, see you later, Frederick.

Fredrik Gertten 13:52

See you later, later honey.

Leilani Farha 13:55

So, if you like our podcast, you have to let us know. Please send us comments, rate us. I think that helps. Promote the podcast. Tell your friends about us. We need more listeners, and we need a little bit of love too. Love can come in the form of money. If you want to give us a little money every month, you can go to patreon.com, look for pushback talks. Every euro, every pound, every dollar buys Frederick a cortato. No, it helps us produce the podcast. Otherwise, we do it for free.

Fredrik Gertten 14:33

Good. See you soon.

Leilani Farha 14:34

Bye, Frederick.

Fredrik Gertten 14:36

Bye.

Kirsten McRae 14:40

Pushback Talks is produced by WG Film. To support the podcast, become a patron by going to patreon.com slash pushback talks. Follow us on social media at make underscore the shift and push underscore the film. Or check out our websites makeshift.org, pushthefilm.com, or breaking socialfilm.com.