Word Food: Revolution & The Flood

Pushback Talks Season 9 is here with "Word Food"!

This season, Fredrik & Leilani return with their signature bite-sized episodes: sharp, surprising, 15-minute explorations of the words that shape our world. Each week, they pick a single word (or two) and unpack how its simple surface hides deeper social, political, and economic realities.

Think of it as thought-provoking “intellectual snacking” – quick enough for your commute, rich enough to shift how you see power, privilege, and the systems around us.

This week’s episode:

Revolution: an examination of the heavy often violent connotations of the term 'Revolution' coupled with conversation about the power of peaceful transformation.  

The Flood: a dive into the fragility of car centric cities, and the importance of bike-friendly infrastructure. 

New episodes drop every week.

Make this your ritual for keeping your curiosity – and your resistance – alive!

Transcript

Fredrik Gertten 0:02

I'm Fredrik Gertten and I'm the filmmaker.

Leilani Farha 0:05

And I'm Leilani Farha, and I'm the advocate.

Fredrik Gertten 0:09

Hello, advocates. This is Pushback Talk. And this is our, you know, the way of us keeping alive, you know, putting words to each other, and we call it word food. So let's play with words, Leilani. It's your time. It's your time.

Leilani Farha 0:28

Okay, I've got a word for you, Fredrik. Are you ready?

Fredrik Gertten 0:32

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. Okay, let's go.

Leilani Farha 0:37

It's amazing we haven't done this word yet. Here it is. Revolution.

Fredrik Gertten 0:45

Revolution. Um, yeah, revolution is. It's interesting that revolution is not really a word that has the best time in history right now. Maybe it's also because that revolution has been in some way hijacked by certain movements that have been painting the revolution. Um the left in the 60s, 70s, and onwards has been using revolution a lot. And then when it came in the beginning, it was like very much a you know, a dream of everything can be better, everything can be changed, we can turn things up and down. But of course, then there we had all the groups that filled it with with a lot of heavy language. It got like a bit intellectual, but it's like it's very square language. So it got a bit boring. But I mean I love the idea of a revolution, a revolution of our minds and of our society, that we need to change things and and we need to turn the pyramids up and side down. It's obvious. I'm not really a fan of armed revolution or you know guns and and shit. Not only because the enemy is really good at that part of the struggle, which we now see in Iran, for example, but also for the revolutionary movements. When you start with the armed struggle, it was always be the bravest boys who will go in the lead, you know. So it will be very male, it will be very uh secretive and and in the end like military minds. And I don't think revolution comes from military minds in that sense. Of course, you need to organize in a smarter way. And I remember when we had the American writer Vincent Bevins on our show, and he talked about his book. Uh, what was the name of the book? Uh When We Burn? If we When We Burn. And but it's about the uprisings in the last 15 years, you know, from Brazil to Turkey to Egypt to Hong Kong and so on. And of course, he then talked with a lot of activists who have been part of you know uprisings, and most of them lacked, you know, the last step, you know. And and and that that is something, of course, really interesting. But would the last step be guns, or is it something else?

Leilani Farha 3:37

Yeah.

Fredrik Gertten 3:37

I mean, in in Chile, which he then thought was like one of the most successful uprisings, it led to the process of a new constitution and so on, but then they lost. And now they also lost the presidential elections. So you're you're up against something that is very heavy, and people also run out of energy sometimes. So it's it's it's difficult to be revolutionary every day forever and ever and ever, or at least to keep that momentum up. So it the revolution is more about also how do you move things, you know, step by step. How do you safeguard the winds you've had, you know?

Leilani Farha 4:21

Yeah. I was I was listening this morning, early this morning, to an economist named uh Clara Matte. And she's actually based, I don't know where she's originally from, but she's currently based in the States. And she's written a book called Escape from Capitalism, which I haven't read. Um, it just came out. Uh but she was talking about the word revolution, which is why I put it to you. She only briefly talked about it, but she said, and it makes so much sense that really all it means is change. And when you think about it, it's revolve, right? So it's to move around to change. And how she talked about what you said, which I think is so right that it now has quite negative sort of negative connotation of revolution because it so often, well, it's been hijacked on the one hand, on the other hand, it has like often militaristic um feeling. But I've been thinking about change and how do we make change, because of course I'm writing this never-ending book, and I have to end with something about change. Of course, all these books end with something about change. And where I see revolution and and real resistance and revolution, we'll put the words together, is really from artists. I actually think it's artists that have um maybe the a kind of pure revolutionary spirit, a lot of artists, because so many live outside of existing power frames, they often have nothing to lose, right? Often are living in poverty and and aren't part of some power system or the system. And so so much truth is conveyed through art, all kinds of art. I'm not I'm not just saying visual art, uh, and lots of art.

Fredrik Gertten 6:20

I think art art is also about portraying dreams, you know? Absolutely. And in art, dreams can be alive. And politicians have sometimes problems with with dreams because they suddenly they have to deliver. But I mean, one of the big speeches in human history is uh the Martin Luther King speech. I have a dream. And and I think maybe we we need more of that also from politicians. And of course, then we all of us should understand that it's hard to deliver everything in one package. That's sometimes also the problem for the the left. And of course, we you we have Mam Dani in New York, and and we are still kind of we're still waiting for somebody to come after and say that he's not radical enough or you he did, you know. I mean, it will happen, you know. So anyway,

Leilani Farha 7:15

I but no, but I you raised such an important point. Just for me, what you made me think of is how dreaming is a political action, actually, right? And so powerful. And I'm all about books these days because I've been reading a lot, but there's may and maybe I've mentioned this to you before, but there's this brilliant book by Saeed Tebe called You Will Not Kill Our Imagination. And he really is talking about at the end of the book in particular, about the role of imagination in change making and how threatening imagination is. And and it gets to this idea of all of us needing to sort of decolonize our minds in order to have that imagination, those dreams that is so threatening to the existing powers.

Fredrik Gertten 8:09

And and I mean, we we have that in in many people who lose their lives and in all these horrible things that's going on. And it's very often the message, also not from the Palestinians, you can kill us, but you can't kill our dreams. And there is a beauty in that. And I think we we should um stick to that and respect people who have that kind of uh attitude. And and sometimes in our societies, in I mean, talking about the northern western world, uh, is that everything becomes so practical, you know, and you know and technical. And technical, and I think that's then you lose a dimension of what it is to build a society. And I think every politician who wants to be really interesting needs also to nurture dreams, I think.

Leilani Farha 9:01

I agree.

Fredrik Gertten 9:02

A revolutionary dream.

Leilani Farha 9:04

Oh, I love it.

Fredrik Gertten 9:08

That was like uh that was a heavy one.

Leilani Farha 9:11

That was a nice one, though. That was to dream a little. Let's dream a little.

Fredrik Gertten 9:17

So are you ready? The flood.

Leilani Farha 9:22

Oh my god.

Fredrik Gertten 9:25

The flood.

Leilani Farha 9:26

Oh my god. So maybe I'm crazy, but I remember reading in a book, another book, but when I was very young, it was fiction. It was uh short stories by Canadian female author. I can't remember which one. It might have been Margaret Atwood, but it might have been Mavis Galant talking about the flood and it women's menstruation.

Fredrik Gertten 9:48

Ah, oh yeah. That's the thing.

Leilani Farha 9:52

Maybe I'm making that up. Maybe I just made that up. I don't know. I I have this I don't know.

Fredrik Gertten 9:56

Talking about Margaret Atwood. Uh, when I was at Sundance now a long time ago, I was like feeling lonely at the director's party. I was sitting in the corner. Can I sit with you? I asked an old lady because she was also like a bit, and I talked with her like for half an hour, and then later somebody, you know, you sat talking to Margaret Atford here for half an hour. She was sweet. That's hilarious.

Leilani Farha 10:20

Only, only like one of the biggest selling authors of all times.

Fredrik Gertten 10:26

Yeah, it was nice. But in Genesis 6, 5 says, the Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human race, heart was was only evil at the time. And this is talking about the big flood, the rising flood that is coming to take the humanity away.

Leilani Farha 10:53

So it's it's so we're in the flood times.

Fredrik Gertten 10:56

We're in the flood times, and in May, I'm going to Valencia in Spain to have um uh retrospective of uh some of my films, and I will give classes at the university and so on. And your face will also be on the screen, don't worry.

Leilani Farha 11:12

But so sorry out there, so sorry.

Fredrik Gertten 11:14

But you know, uh Valencia had last year they had big floods.

Leilani Farha 11:19

Yeah.

Fredrik Gertten 11:20

And in the floods, you saw the images coming out, cars floating down the street. It was like almost beautiful, very you know it's like it's very much the flood. And I I think 220 people or more died, most of them trying to rescue their cars. So that's been like a very strange image of our society. But first, now later, when I'm going there, I checked up the story a bit more. 120,000 cars, private cars, got destroyed. 120,000. Valesia have 800,000 inhabitants and the the bigger area has 1.6. For me, it's a story of this kind of city planning or of a model of life. Uh, you know, how you could how you build the cities that is totally going down with the flood. It's extremely symbolic, you know. And that blew my mind a bit. That kind of, and most of the people who are affected were, you know, poorer people who had lived, moved outside of the city, and they were living in newer developments and maybe old villages, and there were very poor public transport for them. So they all needed a car to get to work. So it's it's like it's a total failure of a society.

Leilani Farha 12:43

Yeah, interesting. I was in Valencia last year, this time last year. Actually, in May of last year, and I had occasion to meet the man really responsible for all of the bike lanes in Valencia. And there's an incredible network of, and and for those who haven't been, it's pretty flat, Valencia. So it's nice. Like you can bike and bike, and the bike lanes are very safe. Um, we did not talk about access to the city from external or more, you know, suburban outside areas, but what we did talk about was how the bike lanes always come under attack politically from the right. It's so interesting. I actually didn't realize that it and you, Frederick, of course, because of all your work with bikes versus cars, the film, uh, another film everyone should see, um, and your involvement, you you would know this, but I didn't realize that it is kind of part of the right-wing platform. It's it's in all of their playbooks to get rid of bike lanes. And I had used the bike lanes of Valencia, they were amazing, it was so sweet. And as you always say, it is the best way to see a city.

Fredrik Gertten 14:04

Yeah. I mean, I was in Paris recently and I was biking a lot, and Paris has totally changed, and the and the level of pollution has gone down extremely much. I mean, that also happens in Barcelona and Valencia and other cities. That it's it's a huge change, and that is good for everybody, also people who drive cars, because it's they can also move quicker. I mean, also we have elections here in Sweden in September, and you can see we can already see that the right-wing parties are not putting up the parking issue. You know, we can't park our cars. And I mean, now in in Czechoslovakia, and sorry, the Czech Republic, there was an election, and the motorist party got into the parliament and into the government. Wow.

Leilani Farha 14:52

Yeah, I mean, it's like Rob Ford in Toronto, it's like the the whole and now Doug Ford, the Premier of Ontario, trying to take lanes out of Toronto.

Fredrik Gertten 15:02

But it's it's very poor politics from the right wing, you know, because they exploit the frustration people have, and and people love their cars, and it's like they feel that there's some freedom is taken away from them. But these parties, even if they're in government, they can't deliver anything to the people who drive cars. Because if they let everybody drive a car, nobody will get anywhere. There's a space conflict that is so obvious. So if everybody can park everywhere, there will be no parking for you, my friend. You know, it's like so. It's it's uh free parking is means that there will be no parking.

unknown 15:42

Yeah.

Leilani Farha 15:43

Well, it's so funny because in my city, we're going through this battle right now. There was free parking in most commercial areas, and now they've put in, like in my close to me, the shops, we could park for free, and you could never find a parking spot. And then they put in paid parking, and now you can always find a parking spot, and everyone is complaining that they have to pay for parking. And then they're going to the side streets in front of people's homes and parking there. And then the residents are like, hey, it's like a nightmare here. It's become a traffic jam in front of my home. I find it so fascinating. It's like the whole reason for paid parking is to inhibit parking. That's the idea. Fewer cars that makes life better. Now, we do live in a city that has very poor public transportation. Very, very terrible.

Fredrik Gertten 16:36

And they're withdrawing money, both federal government and local government with uh North America is a mess, both the US and Canada, in sense of the role of the private car compared to most other countries. So it's it's a mess.

Leilani Farha 16:50

It's all we get, it's all we get to talk about now, also the tariffs on electric vehicles coming from China. I know it's a conversation in Europe as well. It's so crazy. But I have a question for you. Yeah. In Valencia, did they return? Did all those people who lost their cars did they replace them? Do we know?

Fredrik Gertten 17:11

I will find out and I will tell you more when I've been there.

Leilani Farha 17:15

Did it have any change impact?

Fredrik Gertten 17:19

I mean, of course, people are in a big struggle to get some kind of um uh money back from the lost cars and so on. Yeah, but you know, that's for me, not it's not as interesting as the whole breakdown of the model, of a societal model that is that is not fit for this. And of course, you can offer then also blame this model for the the heavy rains, the climate change. Absolutely. It's a part of it.

Leilani Farha 17:47

So it's like a furrow full circle.

Fredrik Gertten 17:50

It was the flood, but you started with menstruation, and that's okay. That's okay. Uh thank you, Lelani. Thanks, Frederick. And to friends, if you want to support the podcast, send us some money on Patreon. It's not bad. Patreon.com pushback talks. See you.

Speaker 1 18:09

See you.com slash pushback talks. Follow us on social media at make underscore the shift and push underscore the film. Or check out our websites makeshift.org, pushthefilm.com, or breaking socialfilm.com.