Word Food: Profit & Spring

Pushback Talks Season 9 is here with "Word Food"!

This season, Fredrik & Leilani return with their signature bite-sized episodes: sharp, surprising, 15-minute explorations of the words that shape our world. Each week, they pick a single word (or two) and unpack how its simple surface hides deeper social, political, and economic realities.

Think of it as thought-provoking “intellectual snacking” – quick enough for your commute, rich enough to shift how you see power, privilege, and the systems around us.

This week’s episode:

Profit: Is there a neutral definition of the word profit? In a time when kleptocratic networks are being exposed and organisations working for profit and profit only are increasingly prevalent - what does profit mean? 

Spring: As the snow is slowly melting away and the sun makes a welcomed appearance Lelani and Fredrik reflect on the thoughts that spring brings -  the circle of life, rebirth and hope for the future. 

New episodes drop every week.

Make this your ritual for keeping your curiosity – and your resistance – alive!

Transcript

Fredrik Gertten 0:02

I'm Fredrik Gertten and I'm the filmmaker. And I'm Leilani Farha, and I'm the advocate. Hello, advocates. This is Pushback Talk. And this is our, you know, the way of us keeping alive, you know, putting words to each other, and we call it word food. So let's play with words, Leilani.

Leilani Farha 0:27

Amazing. We've done so much word food, and we've never done this word. I'm shocked. I think we've danced around this word, but here it is.

Fredrik Gertten 0:37

You have a pink title card there. You know the it's like a competition on TV.

Leilani Farha 0:42

Just to keep my brain solid. Okay, are you ready? Here it is. Prophet.

Fredrik Gertten 0:50

Prophet or the prophet? Or the profit. The prophet is the prophet, the prophet likes profit. A lot of people think that the prophet loves profit. And I'm not sure because it depends on how you define profit. I guess it means.

Leilani Farha 1:15

Let me just float out a bit, please. Oh my gosh. Wow. My brain is already hurting. Please, please, please, please.

Fredrik Gertten 1:25

I know you're I can't touch you because can you make sense, please?

Leilani Farha 1:29

Just make some sense.

Fredrik Gertten 1:31

How do you define profit? Is it um making more money? Is it uh your bank account uh growing a lot because you've placed your money on the right stocks? You should buy war now. It's kind of it's really profitable. Clearly. Clearly. So I mean, then you can make profits. So profit is also one of these tainted words in some way. Well, for some of us, yeah, of course, because for some for some people who are the profits for profit, they they they love it, uh, because that's the only thing that interests them. I mean, it's interesting with a lot of business people because their main talent and interest is how to make more money. And we know that from the way people can make money these days is by having information that other people don't have. This is from Push the Film, the Nobel Prize uh winner Joseph Stieglitz, the famous economist, uh, who told us that that's how people make money, by having information that others don't. So people with money and power, the more they have, the more they worry of how they can grow their money. So they need to kind of circle in towards other people who know how to make money. So some people then place themselves in the middle of this, and by doing that, they can make even more profits. And in the film Breaking Social, uh, which I did after Push, which is now opening in the UK, now in I will be there soon. We have a friend who calls Sarah Shays, an American journalist and writer. She talks about the kleptocratic network. People with money, they they they they make networks to kind of help each other. And now these days, with a small little affair called the Epstein affair, the the kleptocratic network is like totally clear. Exposed. Exposed. And it's and it and there is a lot of focus on on uh them raping young girls, and there should be a lot of focus on them raping young girls. But it's also it's also important to understand that this is how the elites work. They need to meet. And and and you can hear that a lot of word leaders, also from you know left-wing backgrounds, that suddenly had some positions, that they also needed advice from Epstein how to place the money, how to help their kids. You know, so it's and he was in a position that he could with some phone calls here and there, he could help people. And you know, that's what Blackstone is doing, also. You know, it's it's it's um you help other rich people to place their money. And what what are they interested in? What is where can they find profit? They find profit in undervaluated assets, and what is that? That could be anything that people have a problem making money out of. But we we showed that in Push that an undervaluated asset can be a home for poor people. Because a lot of people thought that that was like you can't make money out of poor people because they don't have any money. But they cracked, they cracked the code and the profit is coming in. And I think that's really interesting, but I think we should we should see the the Epstein story connected to this um to this kleptocratic network.

Leilani Farha 5:29

That's exactly what came to my mind when the Epstein files, all these got released, was very much Sarah Chase talking about these networks. And I actually decided a couple of weekends ago to go to the Department of Justice website where the Epstein Files are located now and just search up some names of people that I know through the housing industry, the real estate industry. So I looked up our friend Stephen Schwartzman uh and um Tom Barrick, uh who was head of Colony Capital. He's all over the Epstein Files. And Schwartzman is there courting Epstein and not I I didn't look to see about this horrible details around girls and rape and sex trafficking. I I didn't look at that. I didn't look for that. I I but what I did see was Schwartzmann and his wife inviting Epstein to cultural events and to a party at their house, I believe. You know, that network is is is very intact and still operating today with or without Epstein.

Fredrik Gertten 6:45

Yeah, and I think there's been some amazing leaks, the Paradise Papers, the Panama Papers, and so on. That there are, you know, that's different kinds of documents, but it's also giving us an insight in how the corrupt elites are operating. And that the corrupt elites are people that are in every society are quite well-known, you know, personalities.

Leilani Farha 7:10

It's also this idea of putting profit before everything. I mean, after 2009, people knew what Epstein was all about. I mean, it was, you know, there was a case against him, it was uh a prostitution case, but of a minor. So, okay, completely unsavory. And yet you see emails, how are you doing? I hope you're okay, all of this schmoozing and coddling of a perpetrator of sexual violence and offense against women and girls, and also young boys, what I understand. Yes, that's right. And for what? For profit. And I gave you the word profit because I I'm trying to figure out if if there is any neutral definition of profit at this stage, late-stage capitalism, as they call it, and whether it's just simply a pejorative now. I I don't know if you saw in the New York Times, it's made some waves. There was um an op-ed by a conservative economist named Orin Cass, and he runs a conservative think tank, and he's an economist, um highly regarded. And he came out, this is just a couple of weeks ago, saying that financialization is corrupt, basically. He said it's corrupted our economies, it's ruining our societies. It came out hitting very hard. And um, sort of dovetailing with that doctoro guy who talked about the end shittification of everything. I told it's a great term. I mean, give it to him. Um, they come at it from different perspectives. Of course, Orin Cass is more right wing and Doctoro is more left-wing, but it's the same idea. And it's what Sasky Assassin says in Push, right? Which is like, do I really need a multinational to sell me a cup of coffee in my neighborhood, right? And this just the shitty world we're living in. Anyway, so that's why I ask you about profit. You should look up Orin Cass's. Uh it's getting a lot of press, and he's been on podcasts and including his own talk, including Jon Stewart talking about financialization, this word that, you know, we had a hard time getting our mouths around. People critiqued me for using the word financialization. No one will understand it. And it, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

Fredrik Gertten 9:51

Explain it for our listeners.

Leilani Farha 9:52

Yeah. So it's where money is used to make money, let's say, and it doesn't create, there's nothing productive about it. So it doesn't create jobs necessarily, it doesn't create goods, it doesn't create services, not really. And it becomes a self-referential um world where you make money based on fees, a lot of fees, lawyers' fees, accountant fees, um, fees, fees, fees. You you're moving money around, shifting money from one place to another. Um, it can happen in a minute, in a second. Um, it's about shareholders getting a good return on investment, but it's not about producing anything good for society.

Fredrik Gertten 10:34

No, and it's makes life more expensive for everybody.

Leilani Farha 10:38

Yeah.

Fredrik Gertten 10:39

And it's not giving so much back.

Leilani Farha 10:41

Yeah. And Saskia would have would have said it's about extraction.

Fredrik Gertten 10:44

Extractivism, yeah. And but it's also provides, you know, GDP, which is totally silly because it's there is no production coming in here. So it's yeah, good. Profit. Profit. Profit.

Leilani Farha 10:59

Profit, profit, profit, profit. What's my word, Frederick? What's my word?

Fredrik Gertten 11:03

I will give you something sweet. Are you ready for something sweet? Or maybe it's not, it depends.

Leilani Farha 11:10

I have a sweet tooth.

Fredrik Gertten 11:11

Springtime.

Leilani Farha 11:14

Oh my gosh. Springtime. I think we've talked a lot about weather on this word food uh and springtime. We are desperate for springtime right now over here in Canada. We've had a terrible winter. Super cold. Super cold. And so springtime is uh definitely on the wish list. It is such an amazing. I mean, I hate winter, however, winter enables me to enjoy even more springtime, right? And that's the beauty of seasons.

Fredrik Gertten 11:56

That's the emotional trick we uh we use to explain why we live in the north. True. True. Yeah, we we we want to suffer for like five months because then we will enjoy springtime.

Leilani Farha 12:11

Yes, exactly. But it is so it is so amazing because you it the the cycle of life is so apparent at springtime. For me, it always gives me perspective. Um, I have a few friends right now who are really suffering serious illnesses and cancer in particular, and uh, it's you know, you're dealing with mortality all the time. And so springtime is such a lovely reminder of evolution and how things are constantly being born. I don't know, it just gives me a moment to think about the beauty of life.

Fredrik Gertten 12:48

Yeah. I mean, uh, you know, I'm I'm born in early April, so for me, springtime has always been always been nice because that's when you get the birthday gifts, or you I got long time.

Leilani Farha 12:59

Same, I'm in May, same, same.

Fredrik Gertten 13:01

So it's it's um, but it's for me, it's it's very much about hope and the awakening of hope. Yeah. Because now this morning, it's actually we also over here we have the coldest winter in many, many years. I mean, which means here minus two, four, five, you know, so it's nothing compared to Canada. I mean, down here in Malmo.

Leilani Farha 13:24

Nothing.

Fredrik Gertten 13:25

But this morning I could hear all the birds sing, you know. It's like it's it's so nice. It's the sign of spring is coming. The the birds know, you know, and it I like that. And today we have blue skies and and sun, so it's it's actually good.

Leilani Farha 13:42

Same. It's starting to warm up here. I have a garden in my backyard that I tend to, it's my job. And it's so it's just it is just amazing when you start seeing, oh my god, there's a bud on that tree. I have a magnolia tree in the corner, and that's one of the first to bloom in the spring. And it it is just wonderful. It is wonderful.

Fredrik Gertten 14:06

So, and then we have springtime for Hitler. That but that was a film.

Leilani Farha 14:10

Oh, I don't know that film. Oh, do you have to ruin Springtime? No, Mel Mel Brooks, Mel Brooks.

Fredrik Gertten 14:16

Oh, okay. Springtime for Hitler, but it's kind of it's kind of suddenly uh relevant the title, isn't it? Because uh it's uh um Trump is is like uh but maybe it's it could be uh his winter is coming, I think. So he's not really winning any more souls. He's like no, he's he's a loser, and I I like that fact. He's been extremely good at putting himself in the middle, but springtime is over for you, Trumpy. It's winter, and the rest of us can celebrate springtime.

Leilani Farha 14:57

I hope you're right about that. I don't know, I don't know.

Fredrik Gertten 15:00

Oh no, yes, we are we are he's going down. He's going down.

Leilani Farha 15:04

He's gotta go down.

Fredrik Gertten 15:06

It's really really shocking.

Leilani Farha 15:08

But let's not end there. I'm gonna think back to my magnolia and the buds.

Fredrik Gertten 15:15

That's good. So, my friend, that was like nice. I I really want to, we we should land soft sometimes, and and springtime is good. And I wish all of you listeners out there uh a lovely springtime. And then if you are on the southern hemisphere, um you will also get your springtime a bit later than us, but you will you will have it.

Leilani Farha 15:37

Exactly. Thanks, Frederick.

Fredrik Gertten 15:40

Thank you, Leilani. And to friends, if you want to support the podcast, send us some money on Patreon. It's not bad. Patreon.com pushback talks. See you.

Kirsten McRae 15:51

See you.com slash pushback talks. Follow us on social media at make underscore the shift and push underscore the film. Or check out our websites maketheshift.org, pushthefilm.com, or breaking socialfilm.com.